Note to self: Pick up extra batteries for recorder, this could go very long. Review (carefully) pre-interview notes taken in a sit-down session at his apartment held the week before. Brush up on music by Roosevelt Sykes, Nat King Cole, The Capitol City Four, The Treniers, The Creation, Stereolab, Blind Willie Johnson, The Bobby Fuller Four, Elizabeth Cotten, The Primettes and Son House. Martin Carthy, The Cranberries and Blind Blake. The Levee Breakers, Mildred Bailey, Tex Ritter...Wilco, Cannon's Jug Stompers and Billy Gayles. WHAT??? WHO??? This is just a fraction of his always-growing music collection!!!

Maybe I'm not the most qualified for this piece. Listen, I'm proud of my CD collection. It's pretty varied. I like Pearl Jam, Frank Sinatra and Prince. Always loved The Jam and The Cure. I'm happy with my Miles Davis, Patsy Cline and Johnny Cash. I'm hip to my Lou Reed and Marvin Gaye box sets but The Les Hobeaux Skiffle Group? The Fisk Jubilee Singers? Who the F are they? This guy has a recording by someone named Henson Cargill on vinyl! His religion is music and he studies the complexities of it like a brain surgeon learning the functions of the occipital lobe. He listens, he REALLY listens!

The he in this article is Rooks' leader Michael Mazzarella who pretty much went into this interview kicking and screaming. When I telephoned him last month he assumed that the premise of the interview would be to promote a soon-to-be-released Rooks CD and agreed to have me over to his apartment. While sitting in his (literally) one room pad, I explained my aim. His face gave back an expression as if something suddenly smelled bad in the room. "You want to talk with ME about songwriting? You should interview Paul Simon or Randy Newman. I can't do that" he quipped. "My friends will...I don't know what they'll do! Listen man, I just write songs like everybody else. I don't want to come off like some aggressive...self-interested...narcissist. I didn't ask for this. I can't do that." "Screw 'em" I retorted. "Who cares what your friends think? We'll just rap about music and see what happens. What's there to lose?" His only response was to look me straight in the eyes and shake his head side to side.

Frankly, and with all due respect, his friends didn't write Steeplechase, Colors, Vows, Some And Others, In The Neighborhood or Reasons. It was in his head where Meditation and Music Sound Sensation were born. These are some of the most beautifully crafted and fully realized pieces of music to land in the laps of pop fans in the last 20 years. Along with his band The Rooks, Mazzarella's already carved a well-deserved place in the tree that hitherto has Badfinger, Elvis Costello and Todd Rundgren cut into it. I had the pleasure of hearing no less than sixteen of his most recent compositions (including the one day old and gorgeous song Heartbreak) and was blown away by the growth and scope of his work. Mostly piano songs, the structures and chord changes go way beyond anything Oasis or Fastball have ever done and may never touch.

I first met Mazzarella through a writer for a New York paper whom introduced me to him at a downtown bar late one Saturday night. Visibly drunk, he was in the process of extolling the virtues of Sam Cooke and Otis Redding to three pretty, twenty-something years young females who apparently thought Boyz To Men invented singing and group harmony. "What's with all those voice trills?" Mazzarella loudly questioned, trying hard to make his point over the multitudes of beer swillers. "Why is it that every young black singer sounds like they've only listened to Stevie Wonder and no one else? They all use the same phrasing man! You ladies should look up a guy named Johnnie Taylor...or...Clyde McPhatter even! Then we'll talk one day about the new regime and compare notes. Ok, who's got next round?"

I had to get to know this man. All he talked about was music.

Fast forward to present. We situated ourselves one early afternoon at a table at an open-air café a few blocks from Michael's apartment. As soon as the record button was pressed into action, he did his best to divert my questions. "Do you know that 15 people a year are killed by falling coconuts?" he informed. Asking how he knew that, Mazzarella, while sipping his sparkling water, slowly answered "Heard it on the news. That's something, huh? Who would think?"

Yeah...really something I thought to myself. What have I gotten myself into? Let's see.

I thought it would be good to just throw out titles of some of your songs and get your perspective on them.

My perspective is I wrote them. They're there. Finished. Done. Everything I had to say is in the music. Let's go home.

(He's starting already) I want to dig a little deeper than that. I've spent a lot of time with your music and want to ask you about your work and how you get from one point to another.

I don't know. Who is going to care about ME talking about That...really? It's of such little significance...

I get the feeling that Mazzarella has trouble in believing that there are fans of his whom may be interested in his working process. It's as if he carries some deep, inner guilt in thinking he's not worthy of tasting a drop of the tabooed, rarified water from the same spring where many of his musical heroes have quenched their thirsts.

Look Michael, we're sitting here; it's a nice day. I'll ask questions. All you have to do is answer.

(Looking away) Fine.

How does a song begin for you?

Any number of ways. (One notch above mumbling) A sentence from a book or something from television or radio. Many of my songs are started on a single word or phrase. Often a spark will ignite by simply playing a chord or two on the piano or guitar...same as everyone else. Most times my words reflect my daily life. I've spoken about all of this in other interviews...

That's ok. "Love Said To Me"...where did those demented words come from? "Your flashback infestation...a picture of black damnation..."

My intent was to be as dark and descriptive as I could be at that time in painting a picture of a really dysfunctional friendship.

Friendship?!!!

Relationship...whatever.

Is the phrase "no-end hallucination" a drug reference?

LSD...yes.

Was LSD responsible for the imagery in the song?

(Raising eyebrows) Please...no.

(I don't buy his answer). "The sleep of reason..." as printed in the lyrics on your first album was reprinted on the lyrics page for A Double Dose Of Pop as "the DREAM of reason." Misprint?

No. The Sleep Of Reason or...Dream Of Reason, I've seen it as both titles, is a work by Spanish painter Francisco Goya. It displays a figure with his head hung low, a very dark portrait of despair. I used that image to reflect...to mirror the mood I was trying to project. "Like a Goya illustration..." the lyric was supposed to be "HIS dream of reason mirrors me." I just sung it wrong.

"Apology?"

Guilt. Guilt without actually saying I'm sorry. Notice I'm apologizing but not before getting the last word in...the bit about "your perfect world is just a lie." Almost like turning the apology around into a guilt trip. That's just like me. It was the nearest I could come to saying I'm sorry. I just didn't have it in me to go all the way. The line about "I showed you how to break it down before you..." as if I were actually giving charity, doing a good deed for her. A bit cowardly now that I think about it. Yet, that very much sums up the bulk of my work...true experiences...real dialogue.

"Night Writer's" lyrics seem as though they could be fabricated, probably due to the bouncy nature of the music.

It's real...true. I don't write fiction, man. I find that very difficult to put across. It would be hard for me to fundamentally sing about white fences and warm spring mornings without having a reason for doing so. I'm sure that it's limiting myself for content but if I don't know it, I can't write about it. When Gershwin wrote "That certain feeling, the first time I met you, I hit the ceiling, I could not forget you" ("That Certain Feeling")...did the you in his song ever exist? Perhaps not. Your field as a lyricist becomes wider if you can create scenarios out of nothing, but I personally hit a wall whenever I've tried. That's why I'm not Ira Gershwin.

Are there any songs in the Rooks' catalogue that are fictitious?

(Thinking) No. That doesn't mean I stand by every word I've written. Some lyrics seem really dated and soppy now. They don't hold up for me.

Those being...?

Umm..."Circle Of Fools"..."I'm Not a Joker"...childish, non-poetic.

Let me look it up here...The line..."But the dream that never ends is all part of the plan that calls us all today" in "I'm Not A Joker" is solid and, to me, very relevant in relation to what's happening in our world today.

Maybe...it has its moment. The line about "Sorry girl, I'll go back home"...whatever I was trying to say then reads like high school to me now.

You were a lot younger then.

Yeah, well...I was two years younger than that when I wrote "It's just the kind of world that breaks you down/the love-lost jagged edge that cuts you down/the ever present fear of all alone" ("Always You And Me"). Age isn't an excuse. I just didn't take enough care to...it could have been better.

Do you feel that song lyrics have to be poetic to work?

Of course not. What's poetic about Here she comes walking down the street singing "Do Wah Diddy" ( "Do Wah Diddy"/Manfred Mann)? It's great. It works for its simplicity. My song "Down" has nothing poetic about it. The music doesn't call for that. On the other side of the penny though, the song would not be nearly as fantastic without (eyes closed) "As the echo of the wedding bells before the blowing rain dissolved into the wild bales of lightning."

What's that from?

Dylan's "Chimes Of Freedom." Those words had to rise to the majesty of the music around them.

What is "House OF Fortune" about?

You.

Seriously. I really like the words but they baffle me and I have a feeling that something deeper inspired them.

I don't really...which lines?

I have the CD here. "The poet wrote something wrong/my sleeping went on too long." What are you saying?

They are all abstract phrases. I was studying (Wassily) Kandinsky at the time and playing with words to paint an abstract song. Kandinsky believed that musical harmony and color are linked. The poet bit was...it's all about the pop crowd in New York, everyone talking behind everyone's back. The sleeping line was...maybe I wasn't as aware as I should have been about certain persons...whatever. "This temple is over done/This circus has lost its fun" is saying "I've had enough, I'm out"

I hear you; it makes more sense now. "Lips were quivering and penetrating me" is... gossiping?

Right. And "as fragrant as the jasmine can be"...it may smell sweet around here but it's rotten just below the surface.

Do words ever come first for you?

No...only a phrase at best. Words usually come with the music.

Do you ever use other songs as a template to get you going?

I don't think so...not that I'm aware of. Well, when I first started out in my early days I did. I recall trying to rewrite songs like "I Should Have Known Better" (The Beatles) but they always ended up sounding like "I Should Have Known Better" (laughing). That's allowed. It's all in the right of passage. That's how a young writer finds how it works, learning the mechanics of a good song. I've certainly been inspired by various songs. My feeling is that great songs often have their origins in good songs. It's bound to happen...in terms of inspiration.

I thought that "Steeplechase" stood out from all the other songs on your first album in content and form.

Well, perhaps it stands out as it's the only ballad in the litter.

There's more to it though. It's the first time we get to hear you making a statement for the world at large. Yes, it is the slowest piece on the album but you're not only singing about Mazzarella and so and so this time. It's universal in sentiment.

I suppose. (Chuckling) What do you want me to say?

Do YOU feel that it's special? Did you know when you wrote it that it might outweigh something like "Night Writer?"

I guess...I'm...It's not my place to think of my songs in those terms. I write them to express myself. It's like asking me whether I like my index finger more than my ring finger. They both serve a purpose. I can't sit here with you discussing the importance or relevance of one of my songs. I like some more than others. I have a friend who hates "Steeplechase." She thinks it's a corny song. So now where does that leave your question? SHE doesn't feel that it's better than "Night Writer." It's all opinions.

What inspired "Steeplechase?"

A newscast...11 o'clock news or something. I had to fight for those chord changes I remember. It ran in many directions. It was a good battle because my brain would not allow my hands to win. My hands were chording and my brain fought for that melody, which ran opposite to the direction I was facing. As soon as I went from the C sharp minor to the A, my brain won out and the melody took a turn for the best. I clearly remember the struggle.

Is there always a struggle involved?

Not always but most times. There are no half-hearted terms when dealing in songwriting. You either wrestle with it or you don't. The ones you believe in you fight for. I've been doing a lot of fighting recently.

Which ones do you believe in that didn't give you a black eye?

Ones that came easily that I dig? "Reasons" was one of the most effortless songs for me. "Trip"..."Music Sound Sensation" was easy.

Generally, how long does it take for you to complete a song from beginning to end?

30 minutes or so.

Music AND lyrics?

Most times. The newer ones are taking longer now. Some of the recent piano songs have gone 90 minutes maybe. I'm stretching out a bit more with suspensions and passing tones...and the tonic often doesn't reflect the root. The melody lines are vertical now, more often than not. Understand (pause)...the more you write, it's inevitable that your work will turn corners...if you're open enough to it and embrace it. You have to have confidence in yourself to roam into the woods at night without a torch and see where you end up. I think a lot of writers never grow because they are afraid they can never get back, so they don't wander in as they feel it's safer to sit on the porch and admire the darkness from there. Your fearlessness will get you back...if, in fact you even want to GO back! I don't want to compose the same music over and over again. What would be the point? Where's the fun in that? (Long pause) You know...I REALLY hope I don't come off sounding like a superman-know-it-all- I have all the answers-listen to me...phrenetical...screwball!

Oh, c'mon

When do we switch to beer?

Do songs write themselves?

Sure. That's when it's Christmas day for the writer...it happens. It's our free pass...our vacation day with pay, our get out of jail free card. In my experience, those are the songs that turn out quite well. I guess the Gods feel that if they're going to give you a free one, it may as well be good or what's the point (laughs).

Some writers approach their craft by working at it every day. Do you adhere to any schedule?

Well...yes...and...no. I think about it every day. For me, much of my approach to "the craft" is by listening and thinking about what I'm hearing. I don't mean I have...The Incredible String Band or something playing while I'm doing other things. I listen to hear what's happening in between the lines of a piece of music. I try to figure out what foundation is holding a song up. I'm cognizant of bass lines and drum patterns and try to reckon what makes a song work and in some cases why it failed. I'm in constant awe as to what is before my ears because there's A LOT of greatness out there. Listening is as much a part of what I do as actually going to an instrument and writing a song.

What else do you listen for?

The architecture of a piece.

Meaning?

How a song is constructed and how that's changed over the years. The rules and standards were much more strict for guys like Cole Porter, Irving Berlin and Sammy Cahn...The Gershwin Brothers, Johnny Mercer and Harold Arlen...they worked from completely different blueprints. You'll have to look hard and long to find a Sammy Cahn song where more than one word appears under a note as opposed to three words under a single note. His lyricist Jimmy Van Heusen would never do that. These writers wrote each segment as mini pieces, looking upon each section with special care. Jimmy Webb comes from this school of thought as well. You know, no false rhyming, utilizing a thesaurus as a tool...writing with clarity and vision and always leading up to a resolve. I don't know if I would go as far in saying that it's a dead art but it's certainly on its way out. Melody is no longer that important to a public whom are more interested in rhythm now...rhythm of words over a beat. Hip-hop may still use the thesaurus and rhyming dictionary but it also cheapened the neighborhood. I'm ONLY talking about song architecture here. Where Cahn and Hoagy Carmichael built palaces on the mountaintop, many of today's writers build plywood condos near the beach. There's a lot to be aware of, even if you don't use it in your work.

Do you think Rap and Hip-Hop killed the art of songwriting?

No...no. Don't misunderstand my point. There are lot of cool things happening in Hip-Hop and Rap but the genre stripped away everything that gave the classically structured song its characteristics. The new kid just took over the block.

What else is important to you?

Transitional points. Verses into choruses, choruses into bridges, b sections into c sections, listening for what sets-up a strong coda...smooth transitions are difficult to come by, but when you hear a seamless one boy (smiling)...Heaven.

Give me an example of a seamless transition.

Let's see..."Maybe I Know" by Lesley Gore. It starts with (closing eyes and singing to himself) a GREAT chorus for a kick-off so it's already ahead of the game and then...let me think...verse one happens and then (still singing) BANG...b-section of the verse, a perfect transition and BANG a seamless roll into that superb, slightly melancholic chorus. Beautiful! Let's see. Oh (more excited now), "You Never Can Tell"...Chuck Berry. Let me do the math (singing to himself again)...there are like 12 bars of verse that just skate effortlessly into...umm...what essentially is a 2 bars chorus. That's pretty much the whole song, which swings into a solo that is played over verse changes. The entire song is one long verse with a minimal chorus when you think about it! Now that's seamless economy. Perfect transitions. It's silly to try and explain this through without having the music in front of us to hear.

Give me another one.

There are so many. (Pause) James Brown's "It's A Man's Man's Man's World," not to be confused with his "It's A Man's World." The first nice transition happens right out of the brass and strings introduction using a rest to great effect before sliding the song into gear with a chorus. The next great point of perfection for ME...is the chorus AFTER the lines about "man makes money to buy from other men"...BANG...THAT chorus, that transition boy! It just sits so perfectly, and as an added bonus it happens to be the most emotionally sung chorus of the lot. Magic. I'll tell you something; you want to know what is pretty much seamless from start to end? "Living La Vida Loca"...Ricky Smith...Ricky Lake...what's it???...Ricky MARTIN! (laughing). It races straight out of the gate and is constructed very nicely from section to section...good work. That song by Fastball...the one they stole from "Besame Mucho"...what.s it?..."The Way." That has great transitions in it. There are hundreds of examples. I just threw out a few songs you probably know.

How do you feel your transitions stack up?

They're not great. I'm still learning. "Night Writer's" pretty smooth form chorus to verse without a hitch. "Better Start Right Now" is passable. "India" has some nice moments from section to section..."Some And Others." I dig the transitions in "Wish You Well"...perhaps that's my best, what do I know? Many of my newer songs show more finesse in their section points, so there's hope.

Really fast off the top of your head, name me ten more songs that work like that.

TEN??? Ahh...this can't be good. I would need time and a very long sheet of paper to give you a realistic answer. That's a heavy question.

Play the game.

I can give you obvious..."The Boxer"...Simon & Garfunkel, "Both Sides Now"...Judy Collins' version, "No Matter What"...Badfinger, "It's Too Late"...Carole King, "Don't Worry Baby"...Beach Boys, "In The Still Of The Nite"...The Five Satins, "She'd Rather Be With Me"...The Turtles, "Lost Highway"...Hank Williams, "The Rain, The Park & Other Things" by The Cowsills, "Penny Lane," "Mr. Blue"...The Fleetwoods, "Be My Baby"...I think I went over. (Frustrated tone) It's futile to list ten when I can list nine hundred and ten. When I'm put on the spot like that...

I just wanted to get inside your head for 30 seconds.

Yeah I know but I mentioned nothing by Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Kander & Ebb...the greats. I left out all the kings of the hill.

And back to the question, you don't then try to compose every day as a matter of routine?

I don't. I just let it happen. It sort of wakes ME up and tells me "it's time, get to work." Often, months go by without any motivation to compose and then suddenly I will find myself with a guitar or at the piano. It's not uncommon for me to be idle for a good stretch and then break through with seven or eight songs in five days. I don't panic during the quiet times because this is the pattern that's existed since I started. I suppose you could include the down time as a part of my process as I listen to music every day anyway, which in turn, keeps me motivated to write when the muse...or whatever it is, arrives.

You talked about listening for specifics in songs that make them successful but you also spoke about how they sometimes fail.

Right. I hear elements in songs all the time where I'll feel certain instrumentation is wrong for a solo section or whatever. Sometimes I think to myself "WHO made that dreadful decision?" I mean, it's my opinion, which...I don't know. You know that song by (Bette) Midler, "Wind Beneath My Wings?" There's the bit at the end when she sings ahhhs and to my ears they seem so inappropriate. They stand out and almost sound as if she's in pain. Who thought THAT was a good idea?

Do you pursue melodies or do you let them happen?

Well, they do just appear at times but I really have to go hunting more often. Sometimes I'll begin a melody on the fourth, the suspended or the fifth of the chord and work from there...whatever I need to do to deliver a melody. There are times when I will have two or three melodies working simultaneously over the same changes where then I will cut and paste for the best movements.

Do you have favorite keys to work in?

No. I never think in terms of keys because I write a lot on guitar using capos and much of the time I don't even know what key I'm in. For example, if I'm playing G sharp minor with a capo on the 6th fret let's say, I won't readily know which key I'm working in without counting up to figure it out. I just write where it happens to feel and sound comfortable on that day. As long as I can sing the melody I'm trying to write, then the key is irrelevant. With piano, many of my songs come from tinkering with no regard to a specific chord key. In the end though, I think I have more fun with flats and sharps on the piano. On the other hand, there are keys where I feel my singing range sits best...F to G...probably.

Do you have to keep in shape creatively?

Yes! Absolutely! That is why I work at listening to music every day. There are many puzzles to try and figure out and learn from in terms of arranging and song structure, chord sequencings and the basic mathematics of a song. I think it was Johann Goethe who stated, "Geometry is frozen music." That's where harmonic proportions become valuable. It's all in the sounds!

Can you describe a signature Mazzarella chord sequence?

Oh who cares?

Michael...!

I don't know...I use 9th chords a lot. Suspending the A9 off of the E9. "Meditation," "Maybe," "Happenstance"..."Music Sound Sensation" blah, blah, blah...

"Reasons" has been called a power pop classic of the '90s. Do you remember writing it?

Sure, I remember writing it. It happened very quickly. It all came together as soon as I stumbled on that...F sharp minor...add 4 chord I think it's called...then it, as we spoke about earlier, pretty much wrote itself. I mean, there's really not much to the words, "I've got reasons, you've got reasons too...here we go again" apart from the bridge nonsense.

Why didn't you write other words for the subsequent verses?

Well, as the words were inspired by an actual circumstance, I was compelled to deliver that sentiment straight away. The premise of the song is "I think I'm right and you think you're right and here we go again." As there really was no resolve in the issue I experienced in reality at that time with the person I was writing about, I also wanted the SONG to reflect that undetermined outcome. In the end, you never find out who got their way. Once I had the first verse, I felt I'd already said EVERYTHING I could. To be honest, I tried to write other verse lyrics but none of it felt real. The punch line came at the top and I felt that trying to write around that just for the sake of having more words was being untrue to the piece. I think it's fine...it worked out pretty well.

Out of all of your released songs, which was the hardest to write?

Hmmm. I recall "War" taking a long time. The melody was a bit of a trick and the premise took me a while to get a handle on...using war as a metaphor and working it into a story to describe turmoil within a couple.

I thought using the image of Valley Forge was very clever.

That first line took forever. I had "We fought a war...da da da da da da da da da da." I knew I was looking for a ten-syllable line to fit over the chords but was still unsure of the direction I wanted to go in. It wasn't until I found "The way they fought the war at Valley Forge" line that the song started to show some life. The next line "It crippled and it maimed we asked for more" then gave me a pure rhyme to match the first line which then set up "We had no bayonets but words that tore"...another pure rhyme. At that point I had a cadence and a theme and everything else fell into place but yes, the key phrase that allowed me to continue, although it was indeed a false rhyme, was Valley Forge.

Do you feel that a writer needs turmoil to create?

Well...that's a very good thought. It has certainly worked in my favor as far as inspiring my work. I would have to say yes to that considering all of the love-lost songs that have been around for hundreds of years. We wouldn't have "Yesterday" or "Love For Sale" if it were not for personal unrest. I remember reading years ago that Bob Seger would actually sabotage his relationships and premeditate arguments to create disturbance for the sake of conjuring up things to write about. Now to me (laughing)...that might just be going a bit too far...for a song.

Have you ever revealed more about yourself in a song than intended?

No. What do I care? I sometimes worry about revealing more of the person I'm writing for or about. It's tricky...to balance on that tightrope. Sometimes I feel that I put my subjects on that tightrope up there with me and then take away the net, leaving them with nothing. It's one thing if I fall. It's another if someone else gets hurt and that's a responsibility that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Do you write for yourself as a performer or as a recording artist?

Now it's ALWAYS as a recording artist. Off the hop, my mind begins to fine tune how a song will eventually sound in a studio WHILE I'm composing it. Years ago, I would write songs for the sake of performing them on stage without worrying about how to get it down on tape. When I wrote..."Always You And Me" for example, I was motivated by the notion that it would make for a very good stage song. Not so with songs like "Some and Others," "Glitter Best" or "Drag Of The Month." Now I don't worry about whether I think the band can do a song on stage. That does not enter into my songwriting equation.

What do you think is your best melody to date?

(Agitated) Oh C'mon Noel! Next question.

No really. You write a lot of songs. I want to know what you think your best melody is?

(Fighting the issue) But what does it matter what I think? (Very long pause) You're not going to let this go, are you? (Pause) Probably something written within the last year...I don't know...stupid question. Either way, anyone who's going to read this will not have heard it so what's the point? If I say...um, "Ginger Ale" is my best, who's to know? It never works to ask the author. Paul Simon has pretty much divorced himself from a lot of his early work with Simon & Garfunkel...music that I love. John Lennon HATED "It's Only Love" which I love. Gerry Goffin thinks "Keep Your Hands Off My Baby" is a horrible song...which I love. Do you understand what I'm saying? Just because someone wrote something, that doesn't mean they have the best overview on it.

Out of your released catalogue...

My BEST melody? I'm unable to answer that because I'm not a music scholar, so musically speaking I'm in no position to answer that, lacking technical training. I mean, one of my favorites is..."Glitter Best"..."In A Pinwheel Spin" maybe...for melody.

Do you think there are any of your songs that will always be around?

Wow. THAT'S an interesting question! (Mockingly) Noel, Finally! Who can say? Could Nick Drake have known when he wrote "Place to Be" in the early Seventies that people would just be finding out about him thirty years later? He didn't sell any records when he was living yet his work is still here to be loved. I hope my songs will be alive forever, sure, who wouldn't? (Head down) Sometimes I wonder if there's even going to be anyone around to listen to them...the way things are.

What do you think makes up a standard?

Well...popularity for one thing (laughing). It probably has to have everything going for it'a great melody with strong words to match the music. Certainly it must be presented well by the artist(s) performing it. It has to prove itself over a period of time that it was worthy in the first place. I think it has to be appreciated by at least two or three generations. I mean, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a 16 years old kid digging "Little Girl Blue" by Rodgers & Hart, but maybe by the time that kid is 40 he or she will get it. Maybe even earlier if he or she chooses to enter into the field of music.

Do you think a message can be communicated quicker through music as opposed to an article, book or film?

Ah...that's hard to answer...prob...ably. Maybe so because of its conciseness. Plus the fact that the message is offered up gift wrapped in music is an added advantage. I don't know, because one side of my brain believes that most people listen to lyrics as an afterthought and the other side acknowledges that Eminem has no trouble getting his message across. Music's still a powerful messenger.

I remember that on the night I met you, I positioned myself near your table wanting to overhear what you were talking about with your friends. You were lecturing on how most kids don't care enough to trace back the roots of the music that evolved into the music they are listening to today. Did you when you were young?

I definitely did. As soon as I read an interview by...anyone...Eric Burdon let's say... talking about some guy named Sleepy John Estes, I was at my record shop asking questions. But that was me. I didn't want to miss out on anything that might be cool. If it were good enough for (Eric) Burdon...or...(Mick) Jagger...I needed to know about it. Hey, kids are kids and maybe they have more going on in their lives than wanting to know about Marc Bolan, you know? I just like to promote the practice of knowing where something came from and developing an appreciation for it. If you dig No Doubt, then you should at least give a fair listen to The Body Snatchers who came before them.

For songwriters breaking in today, what advice can you give them?

Jump in. Hang in there. Read as many books as you can...

Theory books?

Any books. I don't know music theory. Be well read and well rounded to strengthen your word power. Listen to and embrace all music. Know your chords and variations, as they will be the wheels that carry your vehicle, your melody.

Is it important to be able to read music?

Not to be a songwriter, but it can't hurt. (Irving) Berlin had no musical training and could only play the piano in the key of F sharp. You do have to know more than simple triads to enable yourself to create a more colorful painting. Prepare yourself for a lot of failure before anything starts to really sound like something...and be ready for a lot of alone time, unless you're writing with a partner...and don't expect to live a "normal" life if you want to be good at it.

Do you listen to the radio?

Not for music. I listen to talk radio programs. I don't need the radio to keep up with who's doing what today.

You obviously are a dedicated songwriter. Do you ever find it difficult to continue to create in an industry that provides for you little financial reward?

(Scoffing) No. I write for me, keeping in mind with appreciation the fans who have continued to support our music.

Is it a challenge for you and The Rooks to match the quality of your past work?

Yeah...sure. That's always a trick. For me as a writer and then for us as a band. We work very hard to shape our music into something worthwhile. Mediocrity really scares me...I fear it. But that's what keeps it exciting and fun...the challenge.

Do you feel your best writing has yet to happen?

Well...certainly. What other answer is there? If I didn't, why would I want to continue? For the royalty checks? I still have notions for us to create a masterpiece that will outlive the next generation and beyond.

Thank you. I think I'm done.

When do we switch to beer?